Arnljot Ask
The Part-I of this article was earlier published in this webzine Volume-I Issue-2.
What has the PKK achieved throughout the past decades? What is the situation of Kurds in the context of the development and transformation of the PKK? What has the PKK changed and created in Kurdistan society? How has it affected the peoples of the region?
Something that I have already said on the occasion of previous anniversaries can be repeated here. These questions can also be asked the other way around. In other words, what would have happened in the past 46 years if the PKK had not existed? What would be the situation of Kurds and Kurdistan? Based on this question, one can try to come up with an evaluation. What would have happened then? The name of the Kurds would have been forgotten. Kurdishness would have been completely assimilated and disappeared. Kurdishness as a national identity, Kurdish society as a social structure, as one of the most ancient still existing societies, would have disappeared. This is not an exaggeration. These are not forced words to praise the PKK. The situation of the Kurds and the situation in Kurdistan at the time of the emergence of the PKK and of Rêber Apo are known.
Let’s go back to that time; let’s remember it. How organized was the Kurdish society? Was Kurdishness a value that was embraced, or was it a value that was hidden, avoided, rejected, and denied? It was the latter. The dominant, colonizing, and genocidal forces were denying it, insulting it, and doing everything to destroy it. The PKK put an end to all this. It revealed the historical identity of the Kurdish people, renewed and changed the people. It brought them together with free and democratic community values and truly created a totally new situation for Kurdish society. It created the free Kurd, the free Kurdish society, the democratic system, and life, and it did this on the basis of women’s freedom.
It did it on the basis of social ecology. It did it on the basis of the free individual and the democratic commune, that is, a sharing society, a politics free from all forms of exploitation and oppression. It created such a structure and values. It made Kurds at peace with themselves, made them love themselves, and made them embrace their own identity. The PKK made them live their own truth with enthusiasm and without antagonization. This is an important aspect of the struggle. It made Kurds at peace with themselves; it made Kurds understand themselves. Without making enemies of others, it has brought them together to live together as brothers, side by side, together, under the umbrella of the democratic nation, within the system of democratic confederalism.
All developments in Kurdistan bear the stamp of the PKK. Kurdishness did not come into existence with the PKK, of course. It is one of the most ancient societies in history. Kurds did not resist only with the PKK. The entire history of the existence of this people is characterized by resistance. Life in Kurdistan, life in Mesopotamia, is all about resistance. Kurds have always resisted, but the resistance of the last 50 years has been through the PKK. In the last 50 years, it was the PKK that marked the resistance, represented it, and brought up all the achievements created through it. It pioneered resistance. It was the gradual systematization and transformation of Rêber Apo’s feelings, thoughts, and evaluations that turned to life. It started from one individual; from there it turned into a group, then into a party, became a guerrilla, and became a people. For decades, Kurdish society has been shouting the chant everywhere: ‘PKK is the people; the people are here.’ The PKK has gone beyond being a party. It went beyond being a freedom movement, a resistance movement. It has become the culture, language, history, lifestyle, and identity of a people. It has reached a structure that represents its past and future. There is a society that expresses itself through this party. This society finds its most beautiful values in the PKK and with Rêber Apo. Taking all this into account, if there had been no PKK, there would have been nothing left in the name of Kurdishness and Kurdistan.
The Kurdishness and the Kurdistan created by the PKK do not resemble any other people or country. It is a completely different reality of society. Today it is a center of attraction for everyone, particularly Rojava. It used to be said that this region was, particularly for women, the most oppressed and enslaved area in the Middle East. The Rojava Revolution was a women’s freedom revolution. Women took a great lead and gained well.
Rojava and the Euphrates basin was an area where so many different peoples are intertwined, where contradictions and conflicts were developed the most under the ruling, statist mentality, and politics. Now all of them live together under the roof of democratic confederalism and the democratic nation, as brothers and sisters. They have no problems, no contradictions, and no conflicts that they do not or cannot create solutions by themselves. It became like this in the shortest time. It has become a model in an exemplary position. A democratic society is being formed. There has been an exemplary life without power and state for ten or twelve years. A life that is currently unique in the world. Therefore, it is a center of attraction for everyone in search of a new life. And there are many such searches in the world, and they find the answer to their search in Rojava, in the paradigm of Rêber Apo.
Duran Kalkan: The greatest women’s liberation struggle is the PKK struggle
Kalkan said that “Öcalan created the slogan ‘Jin, Jiyan, Azadi’ and called it the ‘magic formula’. It indeed has become a magic solution, a pioneering force for the problems created by the power and state system.”
In the second part of this in-depth interview, Duran Kalkan, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the significance of democratic confederalism as well as the women’s revolution that is taking place in Kurdistan under the leadership of the PKK and PAJK.
The first part of the interview can be read here.
What is the significance of democratic confederalism and the solution model of the democratic nation in a territory characterized by violence, conflict and war such as the Middle East? Why is this model seemingly so vital for different peoples, beliefs and even marginalized communities?
The Middle East, Kurdistan in particular, is a historically multilingual, multicultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-sectarian territory. It is an area where many different societies are intertwined with each other, where many different social realities have developed alongside each other and have been shaped over a long historical process. It is the area where sociality and natural society have developed. It is also the area where power and state structures have developed and taken shape and ruled for the longest time. What do democratic confederalism and democratic nation mean in such an area? It means the free self-organization of all identities and their free participation in the unity of the democratic nation, in the framework of democratic confederalism. Within this unity, they can freely live in their own uniqueness. All identities, religious identities, national identities, social identities, see their uniqueness in the freedom of the others in the democratic nation model, under democratic confederalism. They see their existence in the existence of the other. They see their life in the life of the other. However, religious, nationalist, sexist, ideological patterns, and liberalism express exactly the opposite. It is this thinking that to ensure one’s own existence, the destruction of others is needed, that to ensure one’s own freedom means the enslavement of others. As an example, Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] evaluated Israel, which is currently launching heavy attacks. It is trying to ensure its existence by destroying those around it. It follows a mentality that by enslaving those around it, the Jews will be free. As Rêber Apo said, this is impossible.
By destroying others, the Jews cannot exist and be free. No one can. But all these mentality patterns and currents of thought see their own future in marginalizing, destroying, oppressing, and enslaving others and accept and foresee this as the truth. This is what is turning the Middle East into a bloodbath. So many religious and sectarian divisions, so many ethnic divisions, so many social divisions, and contradictions; if they all clash with each other, a deadlock emerges. The democratic nation, democratic confederalism, is a movement to set an end to this. It is a movement to eliminate the bloodbath, these contradictions and conflicts. And it does so through a change in mentality, through an important revolution of mentality. It means the elimination of the understanding that ‘others must disappear, everything must be mine’. It envisions a democratic, socialist, sharing, and communal life. It is not about saying, “Let me live!” but about saying, “Let everyone live!”. It is about saying, “For me to be free, everyone else must be free!” It envisages developing and ensuring freedom under democratic politics.
As the mentality and the concepts of democratic nation and democratic confederalism developed by Rêber Apo on the basis of the new paradigm are carried forward, they have a great impact on societies and the various ethnic structures in the region and in the world and thereby become a center of attraction. It becomes a way out, a way of salvation for everyone. The hegemonic system is hostile; they attack, but the societies see it as a way out. In the Middle East, states are preventing the spread of these ideas, but in different suitable areas of the world, they find the opportunity to spread more and to be more influential. If these opportunities are utilized, they will lead to very rapid developments. A new life, a new order of relations, a new existence for humanity. It starts a new era, a new history. Against the 5,000-year-old male-dominated mentality and system of power and the state, and against the 500-year-old male-dominated mentality and system of capitalist modernity, it envisages a new era of life, a new historical process that is compatible with natural society, that makes peace with nature, and that envisions humanity living freely and fraternally in happiness. It is clearly seen that it has already led to important developments and will lead to more.
A women’s revolution is taking place in Kurdistan under the leadership of the PKK and PAJK and based on the philosophy and efforts of Rêber Apo. How did this revolutionary process develop, and what changes did it bring about within society? What are the reasons for the women’s liberation struggle being constantly and deliberately targeted by the states?
Historically, these issues have been evaluated and discussed. The PKK’s new paradigm, the struggle that is developing in Kurdistan under the leadership of the new PKK, is seen, discussed, and evaluated primarily on the basis of the philosophy of women’s liberation, within the framework of defining and developing the women’s liberation revolution. This is a current situation.
In order to be able to assess how it came to this point, it is necessary to examine Kurdish society historically. On the basis of which characteristics was a society that could survive and sustain itself in the midst of so much fighting in Mesopotamia, be shaped? There are historical realities for this, and there are many social dimensions that need to be taken into consideration for this. What happened historically in Kurdish social organizations and women’s participation in social life is also important for today. It is not a society in which the power and state systems are highly developed. It is the least developed in society. It is a society that has not realized empowerment and statehood. What does this mean? It means that women play a very active role in society. It means that, to a certain point, women’s freedom and leadership still prevail in society. Statehood and empowerment are expressions of male dominance; they are its products. It is a result of the politics of the dominant male mentality. Since historically, this is not as deeply rooted in Kurdish society as in many other societies, this already makes a big difference.
As for the development in the PKK, Rêber Apo is a personality passionate about freedom, and this from his childhood on. His development of the movement is also like that. His passion for research on the Kurdish identity and struggle for freedom has created so many achievements and brought about so many developments, making him a true pioneer of his people. It made him a personality that overcame many difficulties and obstacles. The same thing manifested itself in the problem of women as the most oppressed, exploited, and enslaved gender. He approached this issue seriously from the very beginning. As he understood the Kurdish reality, he tried to understand the reality of women, and as he analyzed the Kurdish reality, he analyzed women. This is how the evaluation and analysis of women developed, and of course, when it came to the point of founding a party, Rêber Apo saw the power of women, the power of women marching towards freedom and struggling for freedom, as the most fundamental force of this party.
One of the core calls in the PKK founding declaration was made to women and was prepared by Rêber Apo. It is still a strong call that affects everyone who reads it. He called for creating a new life with the PKK by destroying all forms of slavery, fighting against all forms of domination, and envisioning a free society and a free Kurdistan. This was an important call, but since the mentality and ideological system of real socialism were still in the foreground at the time, it took some time before the realities corresponding to the call became the defining factors in the political and organizational framework of the PKK. How was it initially received back then? It was perceived as one of the many arms of the movement, as a pillar of struggle and organization. The pioneering struggle for women’s freedom was not initially seen as fundamental. But the women’s organization took the issue very seriously. It developed from the mid-1980s onward.
It developed in Europe and spread to other areas. Women had already participated in the PKK when it was still a group, and later, through the breakthrough of August 15, when the guerrilla struggle was implemented, many women joined its ranks. The more problems arose in the guerrilla struggle and the more corresponding solutions developed, the more the importance and role of women in the struggle became apparent. Accordingly, the issue of women’s freedom and the issue of the family were more on the agenda of Rêber Apo, and he evaluated them more. After the 3rd Congress, with the establishment of the Mahsum Korkmaz Academy, Rêber Apo’s theoretical evaluations deepened. It was multifaceted and developed in many dimensions, but there were two main dimensions of Rêber Apo’s deepening at that time. One was the dimension of the guerrilla struggle, and the second was women’s liberation. These developed in parallel to each other. They deepened, complemented, and strengthened each other. Gradually, this had a great impact on society. Not only did the participation in the guerrillas increase, but from the beginning of the ’90s, the women-led national resurrection revolution, the serhildans, developed. This marked the beginning of the women’s liberation revolution and gave birth to the ‘Party of Free Women in Kurdistan’ (PAJK). Women’s militancy developed; the autonomous women’s guerrilla developed, which today is embodied as ‘Free Women’s Units – Star’ (YJA-Star). Consciousness, ideology, and the organization and struggle based on it developed are intertwined with each other.
With the new paradigm, Rêber Apo took women’s freedom as a fundamental pillar of the paradigm. The ecological society, the ethical and political society, and the freedom of women; these are the three main pillars of the ideology of Rêber Apo. He addressed the need for women’s freedom on many levels, and, accordingly, developed ‘Jineoloji’ as a science of women. The Kurdish woman embraced and participated in this by struggling under the most difficult circumstances, taking on all kinds of risks and tasks, and assuming the responsibility and duty of leading the struggle for their country and nation. Thus, the ideology of women’s liberation, and the women’s liberation revolution came to the agenda. On the basis of PAJK, KJK, and YJA-Star. It became a movement to create a new life, a new society, a new revolution. It defined the 21st century as the century of women’s freedom. This development affected all the movements related to women’s issues in the world. It revealed the narrowness and inadequacy of feminist movements, movements that fought for women’s rights and for materialistic equality to reduce the oppression of women. It drew them to the women’s liberation revolution.
Rêber Apo created the slogan “Jin, Jiyan, Azadi” and called it the ‘magic formula’. It indeed has become a magic solution, a pioneering force for the problems created by the power and state system. Humanity is marching under the leadership of women. It is marching with the Jin Jiyan Azadi revolution. The women’s liberation struggle and revolution is not just a part, a branch, but the vanguard of the struggle for freedom and free life. It constitutes the basis of social freedom; it expresses its leadership. It envisages overthrowing and changing male dominance in every aspect.
Now we are approaching November 25th; it is called the international day against violence against women. It is followed by November 26 and 27, the anniversary of the founding of the PKK. Creating a women’s party, creating a women’s liberation revolution, and thereby turning the struggle against violence against women into a women’s liberation revolution was the most appropriate approach, and it still is. This needs to be evaluated together. November 25 finds its best meaning in the reality of the PKK on November 26 and 27. The greatest women’s liberation struggle is the PKK struggle. A struggle that finds its representation in the foundation of the PKK. Some people narrow the definition of violence too much. They envision it as material violence and oppression. But it is not like that. By exposing not only visible violence but also invisible male-dominated violence against women and by envisioning a women’s liberation revolution that fights against it, the PKK is a movement that strongly wages the struggle for women’s freedom and equality as women’s identity against the male mentality and system. This reality is much better seen and understood by women today. Women realize the meaning of PAJK’s leadership more and more. They understand more deeply the Jineoloji developed by Rêber Apo. They participate more than anyone else in the global freedom campaign for the physical liberation of Rêber Apo. They embrace it and they lead it. Because they see and understand with their lives and experiences that Rêber Apo is indeed the strongest companion of women.
This will be the fundamental revolution of the 21st century. And the statist structures are attacking this because it is the women’s liberation revolution that most concretely exposes and confronts the mentality and political system that creates the state and power. It analyzes not only the state and power, but most crucially the mentality and hierarchy that lead to it. It analyzes male dominance beyond the state and power. It reveals the male-dominated mentality and system that is internalized in all areas of life beyond the rough appearance of the state and power. In this respect, they fear women. The struggle for the revolution of women’s liberation consciousness unmasks them the most. The struggle for women’s liberation exposes the male-dominated mentality and system, the power and state system the most; it shows its brutality, its unacceptability, and its inability to live the most. Therefore, the ruling statist forces are afraid of the women’s liberation struggle. That’s why they attack. In the past, some struggles for women’s rights did not reveal their faces at all. They were even trying to win it for themselves. This is due to liberalism. They were under its influence, but now the women’s liberation revolution that is developing on the basis of Jineoloji is shattering and eliminating all this. It completely unmasks them and reveals the truth in all its depth. Therefore, the power and the state system are afraid. It sees its own end coming. It sees that it will lose everything in the women’s liberation revolution. Things have changed. Women are seen as the most dangerous and are therefore attacked, oppressed, and arrested. Women understand this reality better than anyone else; they educate and organize themselves accordingly. Men who become conscious and organized on the basis of women’s liberation see this reality. Free women and men who strive for liberation can analyze this reality together and struggle more effectively. No matter what they do, the male-dominated mentality and politics, the power and state system will not be able to destroy this consciousness and the organization and struggle it creates. On the contrary, this consciousness, organization, and development will destroy the male-dominated mentality, politics, and the power and state system. It will make the 21st century a century of a free and democratic society based on women’s liberation.
Kalkan: The PKK’s strength and invincibility lie in its capacity of transformation
Duran Kalkan said that “the PKK is a movement of leadership, and that is related to being a pioneering movement.”
n the third part of this in-depth interview, Duran Kalkan, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the significance of democratic confederalism as well as the women’s revolution that is taking place in Kurdistan under the leadership of the PKK and PAJK.
The first part of the interview can be read here, and the second part here.
You said that the PKK is a movement of leadership. How should that definition be understood? What is the reality of leadership in the PKK, and what is the role of Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan]? How should the participation of this reality be?
That is correct; the PKK is a movement of leadership, and that is related to being a pioneering movement. It is not an ordinary movement. It is not a movement that gives power and support to something. On the contrary, it is a movement that analyzes, evaluates, criticizes, takes positive aspects, rejects negative aspects, and envisions a new life. It is a revolutionary movement, a movement of great change. It does this as a pioneer. It is undoubtedly a movement of leadership that is leading the way, preparing a new and free life, and exploring and creating the paths to get there.
Rêber Apo made a decisive contribution to the birth, establishment, and everything of the PKK. Rêber Apo’s role is decisive. The roles of others vary accordingly. There are those who contribute more, those who contribute on average, those who contribute less, and, of course, there are those who obstruct. From the beginning, the role of Rêber Apo has been decisive. It is a fact that Rêber Apo is the one who contributes the most, from forming the movements’ thoughts, theory, program, strategy, tactics, leadership, training cadres, to leading the party, forming the guerrillas, and leading the people. He has always been at the forefront, spends the most effort, and makes the greatest contribution.
The PKK did not take shape through a bunch of people sitting around a table, discussing, agreeing on some principles, forming a common administration, and establishing a party. There are such movements, such parties. They have tried to emerge in Kurdistan throughout history, but the PKK was not like that. From the beginning, the PKK was a movement shaped around Rêber Apo and formed on the basis of joining Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo determined, developed, and created all the measures, principles, and values of the movement. Others joined him and became one with Rêber Apo. Becoming a PKK member, joining the party, becoming PKK, means joining Rêber Apo, forming and organizing around Rêber Apo.
This is an important aspect, an important feature of the PKK. This is what leadership means. Rêber Apo said that participation in the leadership is based on consciousness and belief. Some participate with consciousness and some with conviction. But the most correct way is to participate with both, as he said. This is how to reach truth. He also stated that this is how comrades like Mazlum and Hayri participated, and they became the most successful party members. Consciousness means understanding the truth of Rêber Apo. Of course, belief means participating and being attached to the truth. But just seeing and evaluating the truth is not enough. In order to be a good revolutionary, militant, or patriot, the truth must be well understood and set into practice. Participating with knowledge, understanding, and belief is the right participation; it brings out the most successful revolutionism and patriotism.
In the past and now, especially on the basis of the new paradigm, we question the way of participation in the PKK and in the reality of the Rêber Apo more. There are many things we arrange according to our own wishes, and one thing that falls within this framework and is much discussed is emotional participation. “I have participated according to my emotions.” That’s not how it works. That’s not how you join the PKK. On the contrary, Rêber Apo evaluates the emotion that is not thought through and not organized as a great danger. The power of emotions, when they are well-thought-out and organized, is a power that cannot be destroyed. But an emotion that is detached from thought and organization, through which no action arises, opens the way for great dangers and prepares the way for fanaticism. Emotional participation must be well analyzed and evaluated as a step towards the PKK and towards leadership. It could be a start, but Rêber Apo and the party must be well understood. With this, together with deep thought and conviction, participation can take place. The mistakes and damage caused by emotional participation must be overcome.
To this day, the PKK is not fighting with the Turkish army, the second largest in NATO, but is actually fighting against NATO’s Gladio. It is a force that not even states could withstand, but the PKK seems to have managed to strengthen itself in the resistance against it. How has the PKK made it to the present day? In other words, what are the characteristics of the PKK that have kept it alive?
This actually is a good definition; the question is well put. It really reveals the PKK’s strength. It expresses what kind of war it is fighting and against whom it is fighting. You ask how it was able to fight against these forces? Where did it find the courage and strength to wage war? And how did it survive while fighting against such a powerful force?
Well, especially for the last 26 years, these attacks have been carried out at the level of an international conspiracy. It directly targets Rêber Apo. The capitalist global hegemony directly plans, organizes, and executes it. It is the same now as it was in the beginning. There has been no change in this regard. Of course, it is not just the Turkish army, the Turkish state’s special warfare system, or the Turkish intelligence that conduct these attacks. From the very beginning, and on an increasingly prominent basis, the PKK has been fighting the NATO system, Gladio, and beyond that, the power and state system, the male-dominated mentality and system. These are multileveled struggles: ideological struggles, conscientious struggles, moral struggles, cultural struggles, literary struggles, and struggles of emotions.
These express a struggle as great as war, as great as political war, as great as social war. Even more than that. How does the PKK do all this? How has it survived? The essence of it needs to be evaluated on many dimensions. It is essentially based on its own strength, the strength of autonomy, the strength of the people, especially women, young people, and workers; after all, it has also adopted the name of the party of working people. How did it become such a strong autonomous force? This has to do with Rêber Apo’s approach and view of life. It can also be linked to the concrete situation in Kurdistan. There was no other option in Kurdistan. There was a situation where there couldn’t be any hope of getting support from others. There was no forming of alliances to hope for. Those who tried to collaborate with the state were more dangerous than the most worthy agents. A society and a country ignored and destroyed by the global dominant structure of the capitalist system.
Who are you going to get support from? Everyone is part of this system, and the ruling power and state system are against you. There was the Soviet Union that said it was an alternative. But they didn’t support either. In fact, as the Kurdish freedom struggle and the organization of the PKK gradually developed, the Soviet Union declined, and on the basis of its ideological contradictions, it dissolved and collapsed. There was seemingly no basis left. Rêber Apo saw this reality very well from the beginning. His awareness of history was very strong in this regard. He learned lessons of history well. In other words, he always questioned the situation of the resistance in the first quarter of the 20th century, the results of the resistance in the 19th century, and why these resistances were defeated, crushed, and failed to succeed. And thereby he realized that one has to rely on one’s own strength, one’s own power, but of course this is not enough; relying on one’s own strength is not enough.
One will rely on one’s own strength, but one will also have to rely on the people, on the power of people. One will believe that people who become conscious, educated, and organized are the greatest power. Technique is, of course, power; weapons are power; money is power; but the greatest power is the conscious and organized man. The greatest power of struggle is the apoist militant, the sacrificial militant, the PKK cadre. How did Rêber Apo define this by saying that it is the truth that has been rendered organized and activated? Bringing a person to this state is the greatest power. There is no power that can prevent it. This is not an exaggeration; we don’t need to prove it. The most recent example is the attack aimed at TAI in Ankara, which is the reality shown in Asya Ali and Rojger Helin. The place attacked is one of the most protected and is secured by the joint force of 40 states. But still, nothing could prevent that revolutionary militancy. This is the PKK strength.
How is it possible to create such militancy? By analyzing life and living according to the findings. The power of Rêber Apo needs to be seen, as do his persuasiveness, sincerity, consistency, and power of analysis. He offers a new life. He reveals the characteristics of this life and defines it as humane life. Based on this, he reshapes and educates human beings with their emotions, mindsets, and souls and creates a new free, conscious, and organized human being. This lies in Rêber Apo’s power to explain the truth and analyze life. He reveals the facts and truths at this level. There is no cheating, no wrong. He analyzes the concrete situation that reveals and shows everything clearly. Accordingly, he educates people and creates such a force. The power that makes the PKK invincible is this sacrificial militancy, the consciousness that creates it, the paradigm, the last line, the line of democratic civilization, the theory of democratic modernity. As long as this reality is taken as a basis, everyone should know that no one can defeat the PKK; the PKK will remain invincible. It has been like this until now. It will be like this from now on too. It is probably best to seek and understand the secret here.
What especially distinguishes the PKK from other national liberation movements and Kurdish parties? What is the secret of the PKK? How did the PKK turn into an ideological, political, military and social reality that is perceived by everyone?
We have already partially touched this above. There are many things that distinguish the PKK from other organizations and Kurdish parties. It differed in the way it defined, recognized, analyzed, and thought about the Kurdish reality, the reality of Kurdistan. It also differed with his commitment to Kurdish existence and freedom. Rêber Apo said that if he had not succeeded in uniting himself with the existence of the Kurdish people and the free existence of the Kurds with his own existence, he could not have created any of these developments. Kurdish patriotism and libertarianism are about dedication and not for material gain, not to become a civil servant or to make a name for oneself. He did not accept such a way of life for himself. He refused the seemingly beautiful material life.
The other Kurdish organizations did not. They lived like civil servants of an organization. They wanted to threaten the state a little bit and get more space for their civil servantship. They were begging for a little more share of the exploitation of Kurdistan and Kurdish society for themselves. They were not breaking away from the system. They envisioned living within the system. Therefore, their so-called Kurdishness, patriotism, revolutionism, and socialism always led them to develop their individual lives, to take some space, or they remained weak and powerless. They were not strong, strong-willed, or assertive. There was too much expectation on the outside. Instead of relying on their own power and developments, they had this kind of empty Kurdishism based on blunt nationalism. In other words, there was a ‘materialist revolutionism’. Therefore, they associated with the socialist system and liberalism. They evaluated the Kurdish reality on the basis of their own interests. Therefore, they could not break away from the system. They always sought reconciliation with the system and were reformists. They could not build an effective struggle within the system. When they came into contradiction or conflict, they immediately disappeared. Because they were under the control of the system. They did not have a structure to fight against the colonialist, genocidal mentality and system under all circumstances.
The PKK was not like this. It criticized their reformism, surrender attitude, primitive, reformist, and petite bourgeoise nationalism. The PKK criticized them intensely. On the basis of these criticisms, Rêber Apo both formed his own understanding and line and shaped himself according to them by educating himself on this basis. He did not become like them. When the conditions changed a little and the attacks increased, those in control disappeared. They tried to hold the PKK responsible for their liquidation due to their own approach and style. Their misconceptions were at that level. They did not assess the conditions in Kurdistan correctly; they were not committed to Kurdish freedom. They did not educate and organize themselves in a way to wage a true struggle for freedom under all circumstances. They could never get out of colonialist genocidal control. Those who were under control disappeared in a short time.
Also, other forces and organizations had been liquidated, but the PKK managed to always protect itself in these developments because it was open to change and transformation. Rêber Apo criticized the dogmatism but also gave self-criticism and said that we were also affected by this dogmatism. But we must know this; nevertheless, in the 20th century, Rêber Apo was the least dogmatic personality, the one who approached the process most openly and creatively. As he developed with the struggle, he deepened this creativity even more. He was constantly aware of change and transformation and envisioned renewing himself and the movement. He was always looking for innovation, not repeating what already existed, repeating things he had memorized, and doing what he had done over and over again. His questing characteristic never disappeared. His innovative attitude deepened; he was not afraid; he did not shy away from change, transformation, and innovation.
The paradigm shift did not come out of nowhere. And the change, development, and renewal in Rêber Apo did not happen only with a paradigm shift. There were always changes and developments step by step throughout the process. The paradigm shift against the international conspiracy actually foresaw a radical self-criticism, a radical renewal, and change. This is where the PKK’s strength and invincibility lie. In its transformation. Rêber Apo said that his most fundamental characteristic is his change-orientation. The power to defend something, to persistently defend it, to create it is also its character. He never gives up on that. This is the reality, the reality that made him struggle against so many attacks, that gave him the strength to fight. The international conspiracy, the attempt to destroy him, failed. So they put him in the Imrali system of torture, isolation, and genocide.
They said now it was over. They said the PKK had a maximum of six more months to live. No one believed that there would be any more struggle, but Rêber Apo believed in himself; he trusted himself. He trusted in his own strength and called on the organization and the people to follow him. And our movement and our people responded to this call of our leader. It was Rêber Apo that succeeded. Rêber Apo created success where everyone else was surrendering. This is not a normal, ordinary situation. Rêber Apo overcame any difficulties and obstacles and created new things starting from scratch, all of this with its own power. It is necessary to assess and understand Rêber Apo’s leadership qualities in all their dimensions.
It is this characteristic that makes the PKK so strong and invincible. This is how Rêber Apo was able to take down every hindrance in front of him. No other leader in Kurdistan has been able to lead uninterruptedly for more than 50 years. Despite the attacks of the international conspiracy, Rêber Apo did not interrupt the march of leadership. There is nothing similar in the world. He showed the strength to struggle for such a long period. The PKK gains success to the extent that it understands and implements the thoughts of Rêber Apo, organizes itself accordingly, and takes action. The more they put it into practice, the more successful it is. The more it understands, the more it puts it into practice. Sure, there are criticisms and self-criticisms in this regard. Sure, there are a lot of inadequacies; one needs to see that too. But the secret really lies in this creative, innovative power, this power of change. Anything that cannot change itself and that repeats the old cannot succeed, even if it is the PKK.
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In the fourth part of this in-depth interview, Duran Kalkan, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about how the approach of the PKK changed through the years.
The first part of the interview can be read here, the second part here, and the third part here.
How has the PKK’s approach changed in relation to the war that was originally started with the establishment of the HRK, continued by the ARGK and is now being waged by the modern and professional guerrillas? How do you assess the level that the guerrilla struggle has reached? Also, the action against the TAI in Ankara is currently being discussed in both a political and military context. What can you tell us about this? In this context, how has the understanding of fedai developed in the PKK?
The guerrilla, defense, self-defense, resistance, and war are concepts that are being discussed broadly and should be discussed even more. As the attacks of the AKP-MHP fascism increase, as the fascist, repressive mentality and politics in Europe, America, and other parts of the world develop and strive towards power, this becomes everyone’s concern. That European discourse of democratic systems and possibilities disappears. Everyone’s situation is getting more similar to each other. Therefore, revolutionaries and socialists are discussing these concepts again.
In the past, they have moved away from this. When the Soviet Union dissolved, there was despair and pessimism. There were more ruptures, but now, as they are influenced by the apoist thought, which is renewing itself and emerging as a new leadership with a paradigm shift, and as fascist oppression, terror, persecution, and threats increase, these concepts are coming to the agenda again for socialists. They become issues that need to be discussed, understood correctly, and applied by finding practical solutions. From the beginning, the PKK envisioned this for Kurdistan and took it as a basis.
People ask what the PKK’s differences from other organizations are. Like we stated before, there was one main difference: other organizations could not break away from the system. The PKK was able to do this by focusing on the mentioned concepts. How can one exist, protect one’s existence, achieve freedom, and protect even what one has won without being able to break away from a system that practices so much oppression, persecution, violence, massacre, and genocide without being able to resist its armed attacks? This is not possible. This is why the PKK was right from the beginning. It did not make a mistake in this regard. Other organizations, those who claimed to be the Kurdish leadership, said one thing, and Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] said another.
A fundamental aspect that distinguished Rêber Apo from them was that he was not mistaken on this issue. His correct understanding of the Kurdish reality, the reality of Kurdistan, and more importantly, his courage and sacrifice to fight against this reality. Many others could see it, but they did not have that courage, that will, and that strength. He recognized the enemy, analyzed the theory of force, analyzed war, and analyzed the warlike structure of the power and state system. He analyzed the wars of self-defense waged against it, and on this basis, he saw the guerrilla as the most fundamental method, as the basic method that enables the weak to fight and win against the strong, as a mentality, as a style, and he trained, equipped, and organized the guerrilla, starting by organizing himself accordingly. With no other option left to struggle against the fascist military regime of September 12, the guerrilla offensive was launched on October 15, 1984.
Based on the basic conception and understanding of the guerrilla and the prevailing theory of war, many conclusions could be drawn. The guerrillas in Kurdistan were not detached from previous experiences with guerrilla warfare, but they did not implement it one-to-one. Concepts were adapted according to the specific situation in Kurdistan. This was possible through Rêber Apo’s creative approach. He took the practical experience as the basis. He has looked at the practical experiences with guerrilla warfare, how the guerrilla must develop, and how it can be successful. The experiences made in other countries were not repeated one-to-one in Kurdistan, though. He looked at the conditions under which a guerrilla could be successful in Kurdistan and developed a guerrilla theory accordingly, transforming the guerrilla into a partisan movement. No ordinary army was created. Yes, there was talk of a people’s army, but the guerrilla had succeeded in developing a new methodology that was not joined by the ignorant but only by those who educated themselves and became militants of the party and developed a corresponding understanding. This is how the guerrilla developed in Kurdistan.
It gradually moved away from old experiences with others, more and more with its confidence in its own power, its organization, its level of consciousness, and its courageous and fedai struggle. The PKK created a guerrilla that was fully based on socialist, communal, and collective principles and was able to implement the life of the party among its ranks at the highest rank, living a socialist life. That was something others were lacking. They were after power and a statist mentality and followed an ordinary understanding of commanders and soldiers. At the beginning, the PKK actually wanted to follow that too, but it was recognized that this could not be successful under the circumstances in Kurdistan. The power of the enemy, the way actions could be carried out, but also the connection to the people were all very different from elsewhere.
The guerrilla was the party’s form of organization and action in practice. It was always a force of education, organization, and action. The Kurdish guerrilla was never a narrow military force. Neither theoretically did Rêber Apo define it as such, nor in practice did the HRK, ARGK, or later the HPG become a guerrilla movement organized along such a narrow military line. No, it was always an ideological, political, and active force. The guerrilla became a vanguard force that educates, organizes, mobilizes, leads, and commands the people. Party leadership was embodied in the guerrillas, both in action and in daily life. This has gradually deepened with the paradigm shift and has become even more concrete. Since the time when the guerrillas were still fighting for the establishment of a Kurdish nation state, it has undergone a major transformation. When it broke away from the nation state mentality and became a democratic and social movement based on women’s liberation and ecology, it became a self-defense force of society. It had already defined itself as a social self-defense force before; the PKK was shaped as such a self-defense force, and the guerrillas emerged as the most active striking vanguard force, constituting 80 to 90 percent. But then it broke away from the aim of gaining power and establishing its own state. Its targets have changed, its way of striking has changed, and so has its internal organization. A new guerrilla emerged, and a new guerrilla leadership that realized the line of democratic modernity was formed. But it is not possible to defend society just with guerrillas. The guerrilla is professional revolutionism, vanguardism. For whom will it be a pioneer? For society, first and foremost for women, young people, workers, and laborers, so that they can defend themselves.
Kurds used to be a peasant society. And so the guerrillas developed in the countryside within the village society. The guerrillas developed in the mountains, which were inhabited mainly by peasants. With the paradigm shift, Rêber Apo envisioned a struggle that unites the struggle in the mountains, the cities, and the plain. Later, society was separated from the mountains, villages were burned down and destroyed, and people were concentrated in the cities. The self-defense force is where society is. It will be in society; it will be based on society. Now there is a guerrilla vanguard developing on this basis, and there is a struggle for self-defense based on this. Guerrilla leadership is more professional than ever before and symbolizes party militancy. It is based on its own strength and is most competent in applying its own strength.
The peak of this was the action against the TAI in Ankara. Those who carried out the action were militants of the ‘Battalion of the Immortals’. The most professional and trained force ideologically, organizationally, and militarily. It is a force that knows no obstacles and successfully overcomes all kinds of hindrances. No power can hold it back. The fascist AKP-MHP and its state could not prevent Asya Ali and Rojger Helin regardless of all the force it receives from NATO, Russia, and everywhere else. This is the peak of guerrilla leadership. This is the professional guerrilla. It has organized and shaped itself in many such structures, and now, as you say, these are being discussed both politically and militarily.
How can it be evaluated militarily? It shook both the Turkish state and, in fact, everyone else as well. The state has done a lot of propaganda, saying that it is in control of everything and that no guerrilla activity can take place anymore. It said, “We have ended terrorism.” Well, it turned out that it was empty propaganda. Neither could they prevent the guerrillas from taking action, nor were they capable of preventing them.
The action against the TAI proved once again that there is no force that can stop a militant who is trained and organized in the ideology of Rêber Apo, who gains a courageous and fedai character, and who participates in this life correctly with consciousness and conviction. There is no enemy that such a force cannot strike and defeat. There is no victory it cannot achieve. It set an example for the guerrillas. They realized what Rêber Apo meant when he said that the human is the most advanced technique, superior to all technic. This is the war of the vanguard professional guerrillas. Liberation and freedom cannot be achieved without it. Politics may change, new political structures may develop, but society always needs defense.
“There can be no rose without thorns,” said Rêber Apo. He came up with the theory of the rose. If you want to be a rose, you will have to have thorns. In order to remain beautiful as a rose, you will have to have thorns that will prick the hand that reaches out to you. If you want to live freely, you will always have to have the power of self-defense to resist attacks on your free life. You will have to have a defensive mechanism, have to be conscious and organized, and you will have to be capable of taking action. If one leaves the protection of oneself to an outside force, then there is no real protection, no freedom. One has to form one’s own self-defense. Self-defense of society needs to be developed, especially by women and youth. We are still at the beginning in this regard. There are many shortcomings. In fact, as I pointed out, the guerrilla was aiming to create a regular army along the lines of the nation-state; it was going to be its pioneer, but now the guerrilla aims to create social self-defense along the paradigm of ecological and democratic society, based on women’s liberation. It aims to turn the people into their own self-defense army. It aims to create a people defending themselves and fighting for their own defense. The defense line of democratic modernity is based on this.
Right now there is not much I want to add to the political discussions surrounding the attack aimed at the TAI. Many circles are discussing the circumstances in their own way according to their own interests, but one can say that as long as there is the so-called Kurdish problem, that is, the mentality, politics, and attack with which the Turkish state targets the Kurdish people, aiming for their annihilation, there will be such resistances. Everyone should be aware of this. No one can prevent this resistance. Maybe it will happen again today, maybe tomorrow, maybe at some other time, but it will definitely happen again. In order to exist, in order for Kurds to live free, they have to do this. They have acquired such consciousness. There is no point in pulling left and right. They eventually showed everyone the right path. They revealed the existing danger. If you want to get rid of the danger, then be serious, approach the Kurdish question correctly, and work on a solution. It was revealed once again that there is no other solution for the Kurds, for society in Turkey, or for the Turkish state other than the solution power of Rêber Apo. And it also became clear once more that what the state currently calls a solution is a disaster. There was a time when they thought they could do whatever they wanted with the Kurds. That is long gone. Those who thought so have burned their fingers. To summarize, politically, we can only say that we invite and call everyone to common sense.
